I’m a long time enjoyer of the Versus Saxton Hale gamemode and I’ve returned back once more after a bit of a break from tf2 in general.
I saw a bunch of things have been changed recently which gives me hope that maybe some of my ideas can be implemented as well. Big fan of the caber change in particular, could deal some more damage though.
I’ve given a lot of thought to vsh over the years, and posting actually well thought out suggestions has been my plan for quite a while. The voices (@Heather) keep telling me to start posting.
I’m going to post threads with more concrete suggestions in the future, this one is for gauging the general opinions of the vsh players who may frequent the forums. I’d like to see some discussion about the general state of the gamemode, things people find problematic and things that should be changed. Ideas for weapon changes are welcome too.
Few things I’d like to draw attention to:
Extra damage taken from blast jumps,when compared to gunboats, barely matters as most soldiers are running liberty launcher and most maps seem to be updated to have more health pickups than before.
Most rounds that get to the endgame are dominated by mantreads soldiers, hale struggling to catch them.
They make catching hale off guard with the mg way easier as soldier can swoop in from across the map, out of vision and hearing range.
Mantreads already has reduced fall damage, 1k stomp damage and increased air control, why does it need anything more?
pyro’s lackluster damage output is very apparent now that his utility has been gutted.
I would like to see higher base damage on most classes main weapons. Damage scaling of mg and backstabs might be worth looking into, although I don't feel strongly about this one.
Some classes will always be and even should be better at dealing damage than others, but that doesn't mean we can't level the playing field a bit.
Sometimes unique weapons function in the same way, when they could be more distinct (e.g. mediguns, flare gun and detonator).
Part of the fun of vsh are the wacky weapon changes. Not everything needs to become the meta either; it would just be nice to have more variety in playstyles.
I would especially like stock weapons to be better. New player friendly vsh?
Basically requires you to own a toggleable action taunt to be used effectively.
I'd rather see higher base damage and/or less damage fall off on weapons so they can deal more consistent damage over time instead of having to stop for a taunt to get a burst of damage.
Then we could start seeing more value from things like crit a cola, could even make buff banner give full crits.
It's also extremely punishing for less experienced hales, especially the one's that don't super jump around too much. Without goomba there's more value in picking mantreads for the stomp damage.
A single sniper shot still absolutely kills hale's momentum in the air. Perhaps we should go back to having to hit our headshots...
Wall climb is limited in theory by the self damage and the healing block but in reality snipers is able to travel quite a distance by wall climbing as many maps feature large walls that are easily climbable.
HHH has a limit to how many times he can wall climb until having to touch the ground, maybe implement a limit like this to sniper. Mobility should be sniper's weak suit.
I dislike amplifier for variety of reasons; paired with multiple heavies it causes an insane amount of knockback and damage, it has wonky interactions with projectiles and it has enough health to tank a hit from hale without needing to be upgraded.
These are my opinions of course, formed by years of playing vsh. I'm not really expecting to see most of these happen, and I know some of my opinions might be very unpopular.
It may seem that all I want is to nerf and remove things, but consider that any and all weapon buffs would fall under points 2 and 3, I think potential buffs to dozens of weapons is a net positive overall.
I will discuss some of these points in more depth when I'll post some actual suggestion threads at some point in the near future. I definitely wanna do a deeper dive to each class, not just the ones singled out here.
Feel free to ask for more detail, provide feedback or share your own opinion on these topics or anything else vsh related. If this post inspired you to make your own suggestions, go for it!
Tagging my vsh consultants
@Heather @Skorpieo @Brick @meks
And the ever vigilant
@Aerial
I saw a bunch of things have been changed recently which gives me hope that maybe some of my ideas can be implemented as well. Big fan of the caber change in particular, could deal some more damage though.
I’ve given a lot of thought to vsh over the years, and posting actually well thought out suggestions has been my plan for quite a while. The voices (@Heather) keep telling me to start posting.
I’m going to post threads with more concrete suggestions in the future, this one is for gauging the general opinions of the vsh players who may frequent the forums. I’d like to see some discussion about the general state of the gamemode, things people find problematic and things that should be changed. Ideas for weapon changes are welcome too.
Few things I’d like to draw attention to:
Mantreads
The extra rocket jump force provided by these is absurd and should be completely removed in my opinion. Basically gives soldier access to super jump with no cooldown.Extra damage taken from blast jumps,when compared to gunboats, barely matters as most soldiers are running liberty launcher and most maps seem to be updated to have more health pickups than before.
Most rounds that get to the endgame are dominated by mantreads soldiers, hale struggling to catch them.
They make catching hale off guard with the mg way easier as soldier can swoop in from across the map, out of vision and hearing range.
Mantreads already has reduced fall damage, 1k stomp damage and increased air control, why does it need anything more?
Damage potential between the classes
This one should be pretty obvious, spies and soldiers can rack up thousands upon thousands of damage each round, meanwhile heavy requires babysitting from engineers and medics,pyro’s lackluster damage output is very apparent now that his utility has been gutted.
I would like to see higher base damage on most classes main weapons. Damage scaling of mg and backstabs might be worth looking into, although I don't feel strongly about this one.
Some classes will always be and even should be better at dealing damage than others, but that doesn't mean we can't level the playing field a bit.
Lacking weapon choices
Ties to the previous point. Lot of weapons are completely useless or outshined by the few actually good weapons.Sometimes unique weapons function in the same way, when they could be more distinct (e.g. mediguns, flare gun and detonator).
Part of the fun of vsh are the wacky weapon changes. Not everything needs to become the meta either; it would just be nice to have more variety in playstyles.
I would especially like stock weapons to be better. New player friendly vsh?
Taunt crits are boring
Over the years I've come to see taunt crits as a half assed solution to the lack of damage in most classes.Basically requires you to own a toggleable action taunt to be used effectively.
I'd rather see higher base damage and/or less damage fall off on weapons so they can deal more consistent damage over time instead of having to stop for a taunt to get a burst of damage.
Then we could start seeing more value from things like crit a cola, could even make buff banner give full crits.
Goomba stomp
I don't get why this exists at all... People shouldn't be bouncing off of hale's head. Hale should not need to be cautious in the slightest when jumping at enemies on high ground. Crevice is actually ruined by the existence of goomba.It's also extremely punishing for less experienced hales, especially the one's that don't super jump around too much. Without goomba there's more value in picking mantreads for the stomp damage.
Sniper
He has it all, damage, range, knockback and wall climb. Apparently there was some adjustment to the knockback but I haven't really felt too much of a difference.A single sniper shot still absolutely kills hale's momentum in the air. Perhaps we should go back to having to hit our headshots...
Wall climb is limited in theory by the self damage and the healing block but in reality snipers is able to travel quite a distance by wall climbing as many maps feature large walls that are easily climbable.
HHH has a limit to how many times he can wall climb until having to touch the ground, maybe implement a limit like this to sniper. Mobility should be sniper's weak suit.
Engineer
Metal regen makes setting up brain dead easy. With it there's barely any downside to running an amp.I dislike amplifier for variety of reasons; paired with multiple heavies it causes an insane amount of knockback and damage, it has wonky interactions with projectiles and it has enough health to tank a hit from hale without needing to be upgraded.
These are my opinions of course, formed by years of playing vsh. I'm not really expecting to see most of these happen, and I know some of my opinions might be very unpopular.
It may seem that all I want is to nerf and remove things, but consider that any and all weapon buffs would fall under points 2 and 3, I think potential buffs to dozens of weapons is a net positive overall.
I will discuss some of these points in more depth when I'll post some actual suggestion threads at some point in the near future. I definitely wanna do a deeper dive to each class, not just the ones singled out here.
Feel free to ask for more detail, provide feedback or share your own opinion on these topics or anything else vsh related. If this post inspired you to make your own suggestions, go for it!
Tagging my vsh consultants
@Heather @Skorpieo @Brick @meks
And the ever vigilant
@Aerial